Showing posts with label APRS. Show all posts
Showing posts with label APRS. Show all posts

Tuesday, December 23, 2014

Rim & Back

AK2MA/M APRS
I believe this was actually the second day that I got to wear sunglasses at work since we arrived at Crater Lake. And tomorrow, we are forecasted to get back into snow. Went from shoveling loads of snow to a few days of rain. So, with the sunshine making an appearance, it was time to get outdoors a bit. Off to Crater Lake Rim Village area to stop at the store and hike around a bit. I ran mobile APRS from our parking spot at the office to Rim Village. We were not the only ones taking advantage of the nice day as many other people were doing the same. I had a 1x cell signal with my Verizon phone but I have much better APRS coverage. 

Crater Lake December 23rd, 2014
Like an Alaskan with cabin fever in April, I'll be looking forward to spring and summer here. I can't wait to experience the outdoors during the summer months and do some portable operating. I've been thinking of getting a portable that will do APRS. I may have to finally take the plunge. I'm also looking forward to seeing how many other APRS stations show up in the neighborhood. Either way, now that the sun is on a slow trek back north, I plan on enjoying the much warmer winter weather which will hopefully yield some outdoor winter radio operating opportunities as well.    

Sunday, December 14, 2014

To The Rim, Finding My Grid Square And Then On To 20 Meters.

Crater Lake
Since arriving to our new surroundings, the weather has been very overcast with rain in the lower elevations and snow up here in the higher elevations. Relocating to Crater Lake has one more check box marked on my bucket list. And when the sun finally came out on Saturday, it was time to go explore my surroundings. My wife and I made a morning of driving up to see what Crater Lake had to offer and she did not let us down. A breathtaking landscape surrounded by her mountainous rim. After taking lots of photos and hiking where we could (no snowshoes as of yet) we headed back to the house for lunch. Afterwards, it was time to break out the portable HF ham radio equipment to see what I would be able to hear.

CN82wv
First things first. I have been impressed with the APRS coverage here primarily due to the STUKEL Mountain Igate and KFALLS Digi relaying APRS data from up here at Crater Lake. As mentioned in my previous blog, I have an old Garmin GPS III in my truck that has been losing its memory (hopefully due to needing batteries replaced). I have a Garmin GPS III Plus that I use when I'm operating portable. I love the old Garmin units as they show our highly used Maidenhead Grid Square Locator. I'm not sure if there are any more modern units that do the same but I snagged a few of these a few years back on eBay just for this reason. I fired up my Garmin and set it in the snow bank in front of our residence and after finding the satellites, it was not long before I had my Grid Square! 

Internal Antenna Setup
I snagged my Buddipole out of its case and began to assemble the antenna. I ran this same indoor setup at our previous residence in MA, and it seemed to do pretty well considering. I had it set up in the 2nd floor hallway back there and thankfully, our current residence has an open floor plan on the second floor which works well for my current indoor setup. While at the Dayton Hamvention this past year, I picked up a few accessories from the Buddipole booth. I was excited to finally put them to use. 

Assembly went well and before I knew it, I had the antenna ready to be hooked to my Icom 703+. Since most of my equipment was still in storage with the moving company and many of my tools were in the tool compartment of our camper, I only realized my oversight when I was ready to tune the antenna. You see, I wanted something smaller than my MFJ-259B to use when I was portable. For obvious reasons, the MFJ uses a Kazillion batteries and it's very easy for the power button to be depressed when you are carrying it in a backpack. It's saddening to find out your MFJ has no life left by the time you get to your operating location. Been there, done that.

IP60z
Enter the iP60z Portable Antenna Analyzer! I looked at a few small analyzers while at the 2014 Hamvention and after talking with my friend Steve, wG0AT at Dayton, I opted for this model. Ironically, my mini screw drivers and 9 volt batteries were back in our camper which was about an hour away from our residence. So, for my Saturday operating, I would have to resort to tuning the antenna the manual way. Having an antenna indoors makes tuning an antenna a bit more challenging so I was hoping to have my iPortable analyzer to help me. That now would not happen until Sunday, when I made the trip to get batteries and screw drivers (I now have a dedicated set with my portable gear box). 

Anyhow, I was able to tune my Buddipole antenna indoors and I first listened to 10 meters. More irony as the first station I heard on 10 meters happened to be W1NA, in my old state of Massachusetts. But signals seemed low and not that strong but not uncommon with indoor equipment. Since this was the first time I had set up the equipment here, I've not had the time to grasp what normal propagation sounds like from this location. After listening to 10 meters for a bit, I jumped up to 20 meters where I originally tuned the Buddipole.

J-37 Straight Key with Icom 703+
It was so nice to once again hear the activity on the ham bands and be decoding Morse Code (CW). My main focus was to make a few contacts in the SKCC Weekend Sprintathon. Thanks to Curt, WA2JSG for posting reminders to Facebook! I enjoy manually sending code just about as much as I enjoy higher paced CW contests. No records broken here and I only logged a few manual contacts with my first being Tony, K6ELQ. Tony was very strong (in California) so it was an easy QSO for me. I followed up by working Ed, W7GVE in Arizona, John, K0AE in Colorado, the power station Ted, K8AQM in Michigan and finally, Brian, WB4IT in Alabama. Not bad I guess, considering my indoor antenna and rig set at 10 watts. When I checked the antenna SWR on Sunday, it was a bit high (see iPortable photo above) so in all reality, I was nearly QRP.

Drivers Seat
Even though I only made a handful of QSO's, it was great to finally get on the air from my new QTH. My goal is to get on the air more frequently, especially since I won't be stuck in a vehicle for several hours a week commuting to and from work. That can now be transferred to radio time! But I still have plenty to do yet as we continue to get settled at our new location. I'm hoping this will be the last move for a very long time. Now to work on finding a place where I can put something more robust together and get back into contesting. Not that it can't be done with my current set up, but I prefer external antenna's and computer aided contesting accessories (again, all of which are in storage at the moment). 

Digital JT65A
Taking a bit of a break from listening to CW, I hooked up the mini laptop to decode some JT65A. It took me a bit to get the laptop tuned and the clock set for decoding but it was not long before I was seeing stations populate my software screen. I made sure I was uploading my reception reports to PSK Reporter and it was fun to see how far away I was hearing with my indoor set up. I decided to just decode and not attempt to work any stations. Again, getting acquainted with the propagation in this neck of the woods is my first strategy. I believe there was a bit of solar activity this weekend that did not help but at least I know I can make contacts! 

PSK Report for AK2MA
I would classify my Oregon maiden voyage onto the ham bands a success, although not earth shattering. As time allows, and now that I have a battery in my iPortable iP60z, I plan to get on as often as possible and play on the HF bands. I will tune the antenna for the best SWR possible and make my first QRP contacts. Because my antenna is indoors, I have no desire to run anything more than what my Icom 703+ will exhaust. My Yaesu FT-857D will remain in it's box until I get outdoors and do a bit of portable operating from some local vantage point. 

AK2MA
Since we won't be going any where for the holidays and we are across the country from our families, I expect the next few weeks will allow me to spend even a bit more time than normal on the bands. Straight Key Night is not far away and since I missed it last year, my plan is not to miss it this year. There is just something exciting about communicating using one of the oldest forms of communication. Since that first message in 1844, it's still a very popular way to communicate. Even with all the high tech forms of communication we have available to us at this time, just listening to any contest weekend will make you realize that Morse Code is far from extinct. And manually sending Morse Code to me is like driving a car that has the high beam switch on the floorboard, a separate key for the trunk and an 8-Track radio!  Okay, maybe a crude comparison but you get my point. Either way it's fun and it's certainly nice to be back in the game!



Thursday, December 11, 2014

APRS Broadcasting and Life Over 3,200 Miles and 6,300 Feet Later

AK2MA-9 now in 7'Land
Seems I've been having issues with my old Garmin GPS III lately. I use it to feed location data to my Kenwood TM-D700A while mobile. In a recent cross country trip, I was able to troubleshoot the issue with the help of my long time friend and APRS Guru Sean, KL1SF. Once we get settled, I need to replace it with a spare GPS III that I have or my V if the issues continue. I like the GPS III as it does Maidenhead grid location so it works great as a mobile unit if you want to work some HF/VHF and need your grid square. I was only able to broadcast my location during the final third of our trip due to my GPS III losing memory data.

With that said, there has been very little time for ham radio over the last several months. A career move to 7'land has landed me at our new QTH. The cross country trip went extremely well and the weather cooperated for all but the beginning of the adventure. But I am temporarily settled and I'm looking forward to getting my portable set up working here in Oregon. I think the elevation should hopefully help my QRP signal and I'm looking forward to once again hearing those strong Pacific signals that I used to hear when we lived in Alaska.

Having worked at sea level for the last year or more has me moving a bit slower at this higher elevation. Once I get on the air, it may take a week or more for my CW to get back up to speed. Primarily due to the lack of oxygen getting to my brain that passes those dots and dashes to the straight key through my upper extremity. I'm sure my decoding skill will be effected as well but probably due more to being inactive for the last several months. The time I spent commuting to and from work in Boston can now be used for the HF bands. 

Now starts the tedious process when one relocates with all the changes that need to be made. But one thing never changes, my love for the hobby and Morse Code. My equipment is still in my camper but my plans are to bring it all up here this weekend. With any luck, I will have my Buddipole antenna out of the bag and sending and receiving radio signals on the HF bands once again. My wife has been warned, it won't be long before coax is once again strung through the house and the sweet sound of CW will be heard throughout. Stay tuned for photos and propagation reports.   




Sunday, June 15, 2014

Dayton 2014 Part 2

My 2014 Dayton Purchases
My purchase moments while at the Dayton Hamvention® are those items you see in my photo to the left. My main planned purchase was going to be a portable antenna analyzer that could be easily carried with my current Buddipole setup. MFJ had one I was extremely interested in but I ended up with the iPortable IP60z. The early reviews on this unit were not very favorable but I know a few who have tested it with good results. So, I opted to purchase it. Things I like, this little unit covers the HF bands plus 6 meters. It is powered by a 9 volt battery so carrying a spare will keep me from finding it useless miles from the truck. And finally, the size and portability of the unit. I have the BIG MFJ analyzer but this will at least help me tune my portable antennas in the field. When you are running QRP, you want every watt to count. 

Peanut
Next is my Buddipole Choke Balun which will help keep any unwanted RF from traveling down my feedline. I do on occasion run more power than QRP so this should help keep my audio from sounding funny and my rig from glowing. I purchased both from the Buddipole booth at Dayton. The highlight was purchasing these items from Steve, wG0AT. In 2010, I had some work related training in MO. My wife and I flew into MO and afterwards, we hit Ohio to visit friends and family. From there, we headed out to Colorado for a few days on our way back to Alaska. I had dropped Steve a note asking if it was okay to stop by. Steve gave us the thumbs up after getting approval from Rooster (SK) and Peanut. It was such an honor to spend a day with Steve and the goats climbing Mount Herman! Steve did a great video of our operation and I have to say, I was bitten by the QRP bug from then on! Thanks, Steve!!! I detailed a bit on my KL8DX blog

My final purchase was the interface and software by rt Systems which will allow me to easily program my Kenwood TM-D700D radios. I can now keep everything on my computer and when traveling to various locations easily upload my saved frequency information for various repeaters and simplex frequencies. Sean helped me decide on this purchase so it came highly recommended. 

Now, hitting Dayton was extremely memorable but it was great to finally put faces with callsigns. It was a pleasure to finally meet the BIG HAMMER himself, Tim KG8OC. With Tim, was his wife Sandy (KB8WJT) so it was a pleasure to meet her, too! Also highlights were finally meeting Karen, W4KRN and Curt, WA2JSG. Like Tim, I got to QSO with those two pretty frequently when I was in Alaska during SKCC events. Also with Curt, was Jim, K8SSS who I also worked a few times on the straight key while I was in Alaska. 

Through Facebook, I set a sked with Craig, NM8W. I used to work with Craig's cousin back in Ohio. Also, it was finally great to meet up with Warren, VA3UG. I've worked them on the bands as well and it was sure great to spend a bit of stadium seating time with them. Craig had his son with him so I bet there is a future ham in that household!

Grand kids
After Dayton, we made a quick trip up to see or daughters and grand kids. The advantage of being many thousands of miles closer is being able to see our grandchildren more frequently. You can sure bet I will introduce them to ham radio when it's time. The trip seemed short but it was extremely fun. I didn't get to do all that I wanted to but there hopefully will be future trips. I'm going off of memory as to those I met so hopefully I'm not forgetting anyone. 

The culmination to our Dayton adventure was the Dayton Contest Dinner on Saturday night. Sean. KL1SF and I sat with a few of the Alaska group. It was great to meet Kevin, KL7KY! I've heard Kevin on the bands for several years so it was nice to actually chat with him off frequency and meet him. Kevin was accompanied by Jeff, KL7JVD and Tim, KL7WV (aka W3YQ). Tim and I have a mutual Buckeye State connection, Dan W8CAR. I actually ran into Dan after Contest University so it was great chatting with him, too. 

Of the Alaska group, I had my eye out for Rich, KL7RA. Rich invited me into the Alaska contest group shortly after I had arrived to the 49th and with their help, I was able to dive into contesting and never look back. Being affiliated with the group really helped me grow as a contester. I wanted to finally meet Rich and thank him personally for helping me and also for allowing me to be part of the best group of contesters I know. Mission accomplished! I owe much of my success to them and for that, I will be forever grateful. 

My APRS Alaska Departure
It's hard to believe that a year ago, I was on my way to the East Coast. The APRS map shows my final packets sent while leaving Alaska. I think about Alaska often and sadly, I have not made a contact in many weeks! Life is just so busy here and with long commutes, long work weeks and short weekends, it feels as if there is no time for ham radio. My weekends are booked for the next few months and I'm looking forward to putting to use those items I purchased at Dayton. Yes, they are still in the bag I brought them home in. Rest assured, operating day will come again but for now, I will throw out an APRS packet burst from time to time. That will be the extent of my operating but if I can pull out a few minutes on a nice weekend, I'm looking forward to some /p operating. Could be wishful thinking but only time will tell, or that lack of...       

Saturday, June 7, 2014

Hamvention 2014 Reviewed - Part 1



The 2014 Dayton Hamvention® is now history for another year. As mentioned in my previous blog entry, this was the first year that I attended this ham radio extravaganza. It was everything that I had come to expect and a bit more. It's hard to realize the scale of such an event until you actually take part. I've seen the articles, the pictures, the reviews but actually attending the Hamvention® put things into perspective for me. The highlight was attending with my long time very close friend, Sean KL1SF. Sean had been to the Hamvention® before but it had been several years. So together, we spent all day Friday and a large part of Saturday roaming the ham hallways both inside and out. 


Being this was my first ever Dayton Hamvention® experience, it was ham sensory overload. Like a new ham turning on their radio during a contest weekend, I had no idea where to start and it was a bit overwhelming. But like managing a pileup, we hit the vendor booths one at at time. This is the "Kid in the Candy Store" part for of the Hamvention®. Hams are encourage to touch and get up close and personal with all sorts of ham radio equipment. It's one thing to see advertisements in your favorite ham radio magazines but it's another to actually see your dream equipment sitting on a table or shelf directly in front of you. There are towers standing tall and antenna's erected inside buildings. The ham per square foot ratio is greater than any DX pileup I've experienced. At the start, it reminded me of Boston traffic!


I've owned and operated many an Icom HF radio over the years. My main HF radio is the Icom 756PRO, currently boxed indefinitely. Like most anything electronic, the radio is really not that old but in the electronic world, my purchased year 2000, 756PRO is vintage. With that said, if there is a day I build another station, I will be in the market for a second radio as PRO parts by then, will probably be tough to come by. The photo to the left is Sean, KL1SF getting some hands on time with the Icom, IC-7800. Yep, I would love to spend some quality time with that HF rig! But for now, being able to see it lit up like a Christmas tree and being able to give the VFO a test spin or two, will have to do. Either way, it's at the top of my would love to own list. 


Sean, KL1SF has been extremely active with APRS for many years. Sean actually got me interested in running it. Sean had an iGate in Denali for several years and is now running APRS and doing the same at the Grand Canyon. So, anything APRS catches his attention. I have two Kenwood D-700A's that I use. Here is Sean checking out the latest Kenwood APRS 710 series radio. Of course, of all the APRS rigs that are out there, the Yaesu FTM-400DR is the one we both were excited to look at. It appears that the unit is all inclusive and all you need to do is install and you are on your way! Internal GPS and APRS capability built under the hood. And they apparently went quickly as it was not long before they were hard to find. Had I not already had two Kenwood's, I'm sure Sean would of helped talk me into taking one home with me. That's what ham friends do!


Another rig that has been receiving great reviews is the Kenwood TS-590. Some have even been comparing it as an equal to the K3! And this radio was one I also had my eye on. I will never have a BIG station and I'm always looking for the best bang for my buck. Lower middle class buck that is. This rig, along with a few in the Yaesu line are what I would consider affordable. I'm still in awe today that there is a market for a $6,000-$10,000 radio! Me, I'm in the $2,500 or less, preferably less. As mentioned before, it was nice to get some one on one time with several radios at the Dayton Hamvention®. It's hard not to pull out the plastic and walk away with a large box but since I don't really have a station at the moment, it was much easier to resist temptation. Of course, like a good ham who is trying to support the economy, I had intentions of spending some money and that I did. But more on that later.


The big celebration at the Dayton Hamvention® was of course the 100th Birthday of the American Radio Relay League (ARRL). The Centennial celebration has been in full swing for several months. Even for the inactive ham like myself, I've been reading about all the special event stations and activities surrounding this special birthday. We spent a bit of time roaming the ARRL area. Sean, like many who are roaming the ham hallways, had is Handie-Talkie (HT) with him. The ARRL lab folks were on hand to give free testing for any and all HT's! What a service! The good news was, his HT was diagnosed as functionally clean and as his wife will attest, his transmitter was working just fine. 



Another perk of attending big events such as the Hamvention® was all the free stuff! Yes, us hams, we love our free stuff! Like the free food sample cart in Sam's Club, free stuff will draw a crowd and it can be like a traffic jam during rush hour! I came home with a small collection of free stuff myself. I only snag those things I will use or have a need for, leaving those I don't to others who do. Missing from the photo to the left is my Yaesu ballcap, probably because it was on my head and I forgot all about it. It was also nice to have a bag to carry around not only for all my free stuff but also the stuff that I purchased. Yep, everything I purchased fit nicely into one bag. And just because it was small does not mean that it was cheap! 

There were several more highlights during the Hamvention® all of which I will detail in my next blog, Part 2. I got to meet old friends and new. It was great to finally put some faces with callsigns. The eyeball QSO's were exactly what I had hoped for and as it turns out, there were a few I missed. Even though I probably won't be attending the Hamvention® next year, I'm sure there are a few other ham gatherings that I'll be attending which will allow me to continue to add to the eyeball QSO count. No uploading of data is necessary to confirm those QSO's and in many cases, it beats any award you could hang on the wall.  

Sunday, January 5, 2014

2013 Year In Review

2013 KL8DX Total QSO's as reported by Clublog
It's hard to believe that we have entered yet another year. Leaving 2013 behind is bittersweet. I very much miss operating from Alaska however, it's nice to be closer to friends and family here in the lower 48. My wife and I spent Christmas with many of those important to us but most importantly, we spent our first Christmas with our grandchildren. We are looking forward to spending many more holidays and long weekends in Ohio, where most of our family live. The only ham radio excitement I had while back in Northern Ohio was hooking up with my CW Elmer Ed, K8QWY on a local repeater! It had been ages since I have talked with Ed on VHF. Even though I did not get to see him and many of my other ham friends personally, it is my plan to touch base with them on future trips to the Buckeye. I ran APRS for most of the trip and was pleased with much of the coverage. In many cases, I had better APRS coverage than I had cell phone coverage. 

2013 was the year of change for this ham. From leaving Alaska to changing my callsign, this was change in the extreme. If departing remote Alaska and arriving to busy Boston was not enough, having to learn a new callsign and change all of my information kept me pretty busy. We are still unpacking boxes and sorting through the years of accumulation with a goal of downsizing by at least 50%. It's also an adjustment going from a 4 element tri-bander at 43 feet with an Icom IC-756PRO to a Yaesu FT-857D with 100 watts or less to an indoor Buddipole. I went from finding a clear frequency calling CQ and dealing with contest pile-ups and running stations for hours to 100% Search & Pounce.  

On a personal note, we went from living nearly tax free to tax overload here in Massachusetts. I've not sat down and compared apples to apples as it really doesn't matter as we are here. It's not all bad as we live next to New Hampshire and like many folks who reside here, we can shop north of the border saving some of that tax burden. So many cities and stores within 25 miles of our home and we have been enjoying the selection. And when it comes to radio, it's very different here. The biggest change is propagation. I'm no longer under the aurora curtain so there is normally something on the radio 24/7. I sure enjoyed the ARRL 10 Meter Contest and to date, I've worked a whopping 47 entities with my low power indoor antenna set-up. I had to create my submission log for the ARRL 10 Meter Contest manually, so after returning home from our holiday travels, I managed to finish up my log and submit it. Gives one a new appreciation of contest software that does all that paperwork for ya. I have plans of upgrading my shack computer so once I'm done with that task, I can hopefully get back to using Win-test. I have a few more computers to recycle and it will be time to get working on the shack computer upgrade. 

Anyhow, the photo at the top of the page is from Clublog of my 2013 activity as KL8DX. Only worked a bit over 2,400 QSO's with most being contest related from Alaska. I was not chasing DX, as I had while living in Ohio but my total while living in Alaska is also reflected by the Clublog DXCC overview. 
KL8DX DXCC Alaska 
Clublog is a great program and as long as it's available, I will support it and continue to upload my logs. It has actually caught several issues that my logging program either misidentified as a wrong DXCC Entity or simply helped me realize I busted a callsign. Just this afternoon, I created my AK2MA log and uploaded all of the contacts I've made since residing here in MA. But I'm happy with my 212 worked while operating from Alaska. Most were worked during contests but I did chase a few DXpeditions. 


I started working on my next QSL card prior to the holiday's but now that we are settled back into the new year grind, I will be continue working on my next design. I've already received a few QSL card requests so for those that might be reading my blog and sent a card, I hope to have some new cards printed soon. I also have two huge bureau drops for KL8DX to deal with as well. I'm hoping that since we are entering the coldest months of the year, I will have a bit more time for the ham radio administrative side of things. I've had visions of GlobalQSL and it is certainly worth consideration. From those I've heard that use it claim it puts more fun in ham radio as you're spending less time on QSL duties.


AK2MA Clublog Overview
So with only a bit over a few hundred QSO's in the ol logbook here at AK2MA, I have plans of some casual winter operating. As I write this, I'm watching the DX spots scrolling across a vintage version of Ham Radio Deluxe via KL7G, spotting many of the RTTY stations including a few of my old Alaskan neighbors in this weekends contest. I still very much enjoy RTTY in this age when there are so many digital modes available. Like Morse Code, it has that vintage feel to it (it that's possible while using a modern day computer with software and a soundcard). 

I have no plans or milestones set for 2014. I hope to do more portable operating and we will be on the hunt for out of the way places to camp and break away from the general public. If you had been following my KL8DX blog you will know that my Ameritron Amplifier has been out of service for the last few years. Carl, WL7BDO came down to my house while we lived in Alaska and helped me troubleshoot and diagnose my case of Ampluenza. I hope to send that off for repair and then as mentioned earlier, get my shack computer upgraded and rebuilt. I also need to start thinking of a new affordable (keyword) HF rig. I will hang onto my Icom IC-756PRO until there are no parts available but my goal is to set it up for digital contesting. I would like a main CW rig, that being a Elecraft K3, Icom or Yaesu HF rig. I'm not even sure when I will have a tower up again (won't be one at this QTH) but when I do, I want to have the station ready. In the mean time, I have my Icom 703Plus, Icom 706MIIG and my Yaesu FT-857D to play radio with. Unless I'm participating in a mult-operator setting at another QTH, my operating here will likely be casual and more Search & Pounce than anything. Once I find my data cable for my Icom's, I'm looking forward to getting back on digital. 

Now that we have entered into a new year, I'm hopeful that my adventures both on and off the radio continue. I'm sure 2014 will continue with some changes but I'm hopeful it will be less dramatic than 2013. I think my theme for this year will be less. I plan on much more QRP operating as conditions here are more conducive to low power operating. Not that Alaska wasn't a QRP contesting hotspot but many times even 100 watts would hardly make it across the state border. Both KL7AC and KL2R have posted some pretty nice numbers while operating QRP from the 49th. My station however lacked the exterior metal work that would help that 5 watt signal make it much beyond the neighbors house. Even though I no longer have my tower up since moving, ham radio is very much alive in our house. With the feedline running from the rig on our kitchen table, through our kitchen and living room, up the stairs and connecting to the antenna in the hallway during the weekends, there is no doubt ham radio is happening around here, just on a much smaller scale.